[1005] The Great Heavenly Descent

LWheb :: LW3905 :: dr:y" :: dry :: TO GO DOWN :: TO DESCEND :: to be cast down :: to fall :: This verb has 3 meanings: (Qal1) To go down from one place to another on earth (Qal2) to go down from the heavens to the earth (Qal3) to go down from the earth to Sheol. Grammatically the Qal is quadconcordant due to 3 doubly attested variant spellings: dr:y* vs the normal dr:y" for the vqe3ms (Jdg 5:13 Jdg 5:13) and the doubly attested vqi3fs below and dr:YE vs the normal dr£YE for the vqw3ms (2Sa 22:10 Psa 18:9). Psa 18:9 + 2Sa 22:10 verbatim double witness: And he stretched out heavens and he went down and darkness of clouds underneath 2 feet of him :: He stretches out the heavens to include the earth, ALL OF IT. And comes down NOT to a great/large people and NOT to might ones but to NOTHING (Sheol), to take the dead into Sheol 'walking on darkness of clouds', the hidden darkness of Sheol (a hidden place where one sleeps in darkness). Into your hands I entrust my spirit (10x) 2 feet of God = 10x. It takes 10 hours to put someone into Sheol. Hence it means to go down angelically. Whereas Judges 5:13 has: Then he has gone down survivor to large/great people. Jehovah he has gone down for me in the mighty ones :: So the variant meaning is to go down from the heavens to the earth (where one finds great/large peeoples and valiant vibrant living men). To go down interdimensionally :: The theological takeaway from all of this is that sleep whether in death or in life is angelic. We dream in our angels, for God has stretched out the heavens to us for the 10 hours of his feet upon the darkness of sleep :: Stats: Qal (304): Gen 11:5, Gen 11:7, Gen 12:10. Hiphil (67): Gen 24:18, Gen 24:46, Gen 37:25. Hophal (6): Gen 39:1, Num 10:17, Isa 14:11. Total = 377
LWheb :: LW3905 :: dr:y" :: dry :: TO GO DOWN INTERDIMENSIONALLY :: | Qal2 Gen 11:5 Gen 11:7 Gen 18:21 Gen 28:12 Exo 3:8 Exo 19:11 Exo 19:18 Exo 19:20 Exo 19:21 Exo 19:24 Exo 19:25 Exo 32:1 Exo 32:7 Exo 32:15 Exo 34:5 Exo 34:29 Num 11:17 Num 11:25 Num 12:5 Deu 9:12 Deu 9:15 Deu 10:5 Jdg 5:13 Neh 9:13 Pro 30:4 Ecc 3:21 Isa 31:4 Mic 1:3 ::
LWheb :: LW3905 :: dr:y" :: dry :: TO GO DOWN ANGELICALLY :: | Qal3 Gen 37:35 Num 16:30 Num 16:33 2Sa 22:10 Job 7:9 Job 17:16 Job 33:24 Psa 18:9 Psa 28:1 Psa 30:3 Psa 30:9 Psa 49:17 Psa 55:15 Psa 88:4 Psa 115:17 Psa 143:7 Psa 144:5 Pro 5:5 Pro 7:27 Isa 5:14 Isa 38:18 Isa 64:1 Isa 64:3 Eze 26:20 Eze 31:14 Eze 31:15 Eze 31:16 Eze 31:17 Eze 32:18 Eze 32:21 Eze 32:24 Eze 32:25 Eze 32:27 Eze 32:29 Eze 32:30 ::
LWheb :: LW3905 :: dr:y" :: dry :: TO GO DOWN ATMOSPHERICALLY :: fire coming down from the heavens :: There is a doubly attested variant in the feminine: dr£Te vqi3fs1: 2Ki 1:10 2Ki 1:12  whereas the expected form is: drETe vqi3fs2: Isa 34:5 Eze 26:11. This variant form refers to fire sent by God, coming down from the heavens of the atmosphere :: | Qal4 2Ki 1:10 2Ki 1:12 2Ki 1:14 2Ch 7:1 ::
LWheb :: LW3905 :: dr:y" :: dry :: TO BRING DOWN :: to cause to go down :: | in Hiphil | in Hophal ::

Theologically: Sleep whether at night or in adamic death (Sheol in Hebrew, Hades in Greek) is angelic. We dream in our angels. We can deduce this by logic, because when one dies one's human body is burnt or dust or being eaten by worms. Therefore our spirit cannot be running on that hardware and the only other scripturally mentioned hardware in existence for our spirit is angelic. We can deduce it from Luke 18:52-55 wherein Jesus informs us the the spirit of Jairus' daughter is not in her body whilst she is asleep. And yet is returned when she wakes up. So it must have been running on some other hardware in the meantime, whilst she was sleeping, and that hardware can only be angelic. We can deduce it from the fact the 2Sa 22:10 and Psa 18:9 give us two verbatim witnesses to God coming down NOT to a large/great people and NOT to valiant/mighty/vigorous/heatlhyliving men but to absolutely NOTHING - Sheol, where he walks not on the dust with worms beneath but on the darkness with spirits in angelic bodies, actually shared angelic bodies, beneath - see U255 and Intro51. The omission of the target of God's descent in 2Sa 22:10 and Psa 18:9 is BIG. You say it best when you say nothing at all!

Grammatically: What is great is that this verb 'to go down' definitely has 4 classes of meaning as we have identified above and there are definitely 3 and only 3 doubly attested varaints in the person denominated prt of the Qal. And that is a BIG BIG BIG quadcordant witness, in fact a triple witness to 
A: Binyan concordance in the absence of doubly attested variant spellings and 
B: Binyan Biconcordance in their presence.

Binyan split: The variant spellings should be counted for all person conjugated verbs (perfect, imperfect, perfect vuv consecutive, imperfect vuv consecutive) for the number of distinct meaings in those conjugations. Then counted separately for all non person conjugated verbs (infinitives, imperatives and participles), for the number of distinct meaings in those conjugations. Since we now have two counts we have 2 sets of meanings.
vqpmpa1 is: ~ydir*yO (8 Gen 28:12 Jos 3:13 Jos 3:16...) vqpmpa2 is: ~ydir*Ay (2 Jdg 9:37 1Sa 9:27)
vqpmpc1 is: yder*yO (4 Psa 30:3 Psa 115:17 Psa 143:7 Eze 32:29) vqpmpc2 is: yder*Ay (16 Psa 22:29 Psa 28:1 Psa 88:4...)
vqmms1 is: hd"r* (2) vqmms2 is: drE (12) vqmms3 is: drEw" (1) vqmms4 is: hd"rE (2)
The first 2 participle lines are making the same distinction between dr*y and dr*Ay but with different suffices and suffix vowels. So they only produce one spelling variant. The imperative line has 3 doubly attested forms - which give us 2 further variants. So we have in total 3 variants as well as the standard form. So the non personal conjugations are quadconcordant like the personal conjugations

Technical note: A Dagesh on R1 does not make a new variant to the same form without the Dagesh. In the Qal a Dagesh occurs on R1 either due to a prefix or due to a quiet vowel starting a word. Neither of these are grammatical variants (we can ignore Dagesh on R1 for clustering purposes).

Gordon: Jdg 5:13 Jaarad the simple root 'to go down' has become Jerad twice in the qal perfect 3ms - woops. Another simple stem. Then in Jdg 19:11 we get rad, like the noun bul, but apparently another version of the simple root in the qal perfect 3ms????

Grok: dr:y" is the normal Qal perfect 3ms. The two Judges forms are the same verb, shortened. They are not a new root.

The three writings

BDB already flags both as odd and says: read dr:y" (or imperfect drEyE). They are not listing a second verb “to rad.”

Why it can happen

dry is Pe-Yod (R1 is a yod). Those verbs often thin or lose R1:
- imperfect drEyE (the familiar short form)
- imperative drE — yod already gone
- Jdg 19:11 dr: looks like that imperative shape used as a perfect, or a perfect that has lost the yod the way some I-Yod / I-Waw forms do

Jdg 5:13 dr:y* is halfway: the yod is still written, but it has no full vowel. Two witnesses in one verse, so the spelling is not a slip of one copyist in one word.

What it is not

It is not the noun lWB pattern as a new Qal 3ms.
It is dry wearing less of its first letter — expected class behaviour, rare in the perfect, common in the prefix and imperative.

So:
- simple root / citation form remains dr:y"
- dr:y* = variant pointing of that 3ms (reduce R1)
- dr: = further variant (drop R1)

If you apply biconcordance, you would ask whether the short writings take a special shade of “go down” (go down to battle, go down as remnant in 5:13; the day went down in 19:11). Grammatically they are still Qal perfect 3ms of to go down. No orphan root. Just a Pe-Yod that has started to look like its own imperative.

Gordon: Yes. We have biconcordance from the 2 witnesses to the sheva yod. But no triconcordance because the 3rd form only appears once. But the 2 or 3 radical witnesses is working beautifully in this case! How about a STATE of being down, i.e. stay down rather than go down? If the day had gone down extremely - Then we are in the state of darkness in Jdg 19:11 - it cannot go down anymore.

Grok: That is a good use of the one-off form — as a hint, not as a third established meaning.

What you have

- dr:y" — standard Qal: go down (action).
- dr:y* ×2 in Judges 5:13 — variant pointing: still “came down,” the remnant went down to the nobles / YHWH went down for me among the warriors. Action. Biconcordance is allowed; the extra shade, if any, is still motion (down into battle).
- dr: ×1 in Judges 19:11 — not a third witness. Indication only.

Judges 19:11

~AYh; dr: daom.
Translates as: The day has dr: extremely.
At evening near Jebus the light is not in the act of sinking. It is already down. It cannot go down any further. That is a state: the day is down.

That fits your offices:

The missing yod is the same picture as “lose R1”: the motion-letter is gone; what is left is the low position.

How hard you may press it

Because dr: occurs once, you may read 19:11 as state. You may not print a third Qal meaning as axiom. Two witnesses established the sheva-yod writing. One witness suggests: when even the yod is gone, the verb names the state of having finished going down.

For the narrative that is exact: they need lodging because daylight is not descending — it is down. The grammar and the plot agree. The 2-or-3 radical rule is doing what you wanted: the shorter form is the more “settled” word.

Gordon: It is almost as if they are deliberately saying gone down completely by leaving out the yod. They are teaching the 2 or 3 radical rule. They are showing the meaning of losing a radical. Also it is a hint to the variant meaning - an extreme going down. From heaven to earth or from the ark to earth. In Jdg 5:13 God obviously came down from heaven for me among the mighty men. So the survivor also came down from heaven. This was Moses who survived seeing God and who did not eat or drink for 40 days at the top of a mountain. Humans canot do that without supernatural help. In the cloud on the top of mount sinai in Arabia effectively was the greater ark, the same one Jesus was fed from for 40 days and nights of fasting in the wilderness after which he 'felt hungry'. So the variant meaing is the greatest possible coming down. Which of course applies to the coming down of Sodom and Gomorrah etc. 

Stretching out the heavens to the earth

Gordon: Here are the balance...2Sa 22:10 Neh 9:13 Job 7:9 Job 17:16 Psa 18:9 Psa 30:3 (pit defined as Sheol here) Psa 30:9 Psa 49:17 Psa 55:15 Psa 88:4 (pit defined) Psa 115:17 Psa 143:7 Psa 144:5 Pro 1:12 Pro 5:5 Pro 18:8 Pro 30:4 Ecc 3:21 Isa 5:14 Isa 31:4 Isa 38:18 Isa 64:1 Isa 64:3 Eze 26:20 Eze 31:14 (the pit is the land below) Eze 31:15 Eze 31:16 Eze
31:17 Eze 32:18 (the land below = pit) Eze 32:21 Eze 32:24 Eze 32:25 Eze 32:27 Eze 32:29 Eze 32:30 Mic 1:3

Grok: Still only Judges 5:13 is forced.
This second list is thematically full of Sheol, the pit, and YHWH coming down through the sky. Grammatically they are ordinary dry.

Worth one glance

2 Samuel 22:10 = Psalm 18:10 dr:YEw:

BDB isolates this wayyiqtol (and two companions) as dr:YEw: rather than the common dr£YEw:. That is a pointing wrinkle in the standard prefix conjugation (often pausal), not the sheva-yod perfect dr:y*. Do not promote it to the forced class unless you decide pausal wayyiqtol is a new variant writing. I would not. YHWH bows the heavens and comes down — theme, standard verb.

Psalm 144:5 drEwE — imperative, R1 already gone, normal.

The rest of the list — standard, theme = descent to the other world or from heaven

Job 33:24 (first list) and Psalm 30:3 sit together: pit = Sheol in the psalm’s own words. Still td£r£ / ydEr*yO rAb type forms, not dr:y*.

Score for the whole ~50

- Grammatically forced full/heavenly descent: Judges 5:13 (two dr:y*).
- Optional hint: Judges 19:11 dr: (day/sun completely down).
- All others: standard dry; interdimensional because of where they go down (heaven, Sinai, Sheol, pit, land below), not because a letter was stripped in the 3ms.

The theme is thick. The pointing axiom is still a single verse. That is the honest split.

Gordon: It does not matter how the variant is produced. Any variant is an indication if singly attested. If it is a different wrinkle then it does not have to be interdimensional. And you point out it has two companions so oh dear. We have a SECOND split. That means a futher split in the Qal: What are the two companions? It seems to me that death/piut/sheol could me separated out?

Grok: BDB’s “dr:YEw: 2 Samuel 22:10 + 2 times” is almost certainly this pair plus the way they count it:

The companions

That is the same poem twice. Two witnesses to one wrinkle: wayyiqtol with patach (pausal dr:YEw:) instead of the common dr£YEw:.

If BDB’s “2t” means those two, you have an established pointing variant in the imperfect/wayyiqtol.
If there is a third stray, find it before you freeze a three-way split.

This wrinkle is not Sheol

Both hits are theophany from the sky, not the pit.
So you must not dump death/Sheol onto dr:YEw:. That would mix two descents.

A possible further Qal split (only if you accept the two poems as two witnesses)

Sheol / pit / “land below” then stay on the standard verb unless you later find a Sheol-only spelling. Do not force them onto this second wrinkle. The second wrinkle, if it is real, is storm-theophany, not death.

“Any variant is an indication if singly attested” — yes.
This one is doubly attested (the two books). It does not have to be the same meaning as dr:y*. A further split is allowed: two different variant writings, two different extra senses, both still “come down,” both interdimensional in different directions (into the fight vs out of the sky). Death can remain the unmarked standard use. That is the cleaner house.

Gordon: I have 'stretch out the heavens and come down with darkness of cloud benath his feet', which is the same thing if you accept that it is stretched out to include the earth, rather than bent down to reach the earth. If he stretched out the heavens to include the earth then we are angelic. We already have this from the two nostrils two lungs and the sleeing spirit of Jairus' daughter etc. When an account is repeated it have a greater meaning that is important. For no repetition fails to add something. He causes to add (Joseph). He worked that out - because the dream is repeated to Pharaoh... two fulfilments. So the greater meaning is ANGELIC DESCENT. So this would be descents by angels NOT by God. It would exclude desents into SheolIt is kind of a subdivsion of interdimensional descent!

Grok: Two layers again — both usable, if they stay labelled.

Grammar

dr:YEw: in 2 Samuel 22:10 and Psalm 18:10 is the same line twice. That is two witnesses to one pointing wrinkle.
On your rule: established variant → extra sense.
The scene is not Sheol. It is sky, cloud, feet. So the extra sense, if any, is a kind of heavenly descent, not death.

hjn ~ymX will carry your fork by itself:
- bend the heavens down to the earth, or
- stretch the heavens so that earth is taken into them.

Same verb does both in Hebrew (pitch a tent / stretch the sky / tilt). You do not need a new root for that.

Repetition

Your Joseph rule: a repeated account is not a spare copy. Pharaoh’s two dreams are two fulfilments of one word.
2 Samuel 22 and Psalm 18 are that structure: one descent spoken twice → a greater office of the same verb.

You assign that greater office: angelic descent (messengers coming across), a subdivision of interdimensional descent, not God Himself and not going down to the pit.

That keeps the map clean:

Sheol stays out of this wrinkle. Good.

What is confession, not lexicon

“Stretched to include the earth → we are angelic” is the next step: nostrils, Jairus’ spirit, two lungs. That is your system reading the same grammar. It does not have to be proved from the patach on dr:YEw: in order for the subdivision to work.

For the lexicon it is enough to say:
the repeated dr:YEw: marks a sky-descent distinct from Sheol and distinct from the Judges 5:13 perfect. You call that angelic. The pointing only forces: this coming-down is the storm-theophany kind. Who exactly comes — God, or His messengers as the greater sense of the doublet — is the theological claim the repetition invites.

Gordon: Yes one can just take the meaning as angelic descent and that works for the triconcordance. But If God has stretched out the heavens to the earth. Then we are a part of the heavens and the heavens are angelic. Who is earthling man that you should take notice of him?? - Mark2 angels in human bodies.